TJ Rives:
Plus 550 for the kid last week to get Chris Billam-Smith on the decision. It isn’t often that I can say I got one over on you, but I got one over on you on that one.
Dan Rafael:
Listen, that was a surprise to me, because I’ve always liked Billam-Smith as an entertainer, not necessarily as the most skillful boxer. And frankly, he didn’t win on skills, he won because he showed toughness against a guy that seemed petrified, Lawrence Okolie, and spent the whole fight holding. So listen, big win for Billam-Smith, happy for the guy, and he proved myself and lots of others wrong. And Okolie, I just can’t go there anymore.
TJ Rives:
Yeah, disappointing. Disappointing for him. Last week we saw Leigh Wood recapture his featherweight title. We saw a big knockout from Luis Alberto Lopez, and both of us had that wrong. We both liked Michael Conlan, and Conlan got knocked flat out in Belfast, Northern Ireland, last week. So we had some upsets last week. In fact, all three favorites, as somebody just pointed out in the live chat, all three favorites went down last week in the world championship fights that we had.
Dan Rafael:
Highly [inaudible 00:02:58] for that many upsets in one weekend. Listen, when it came to Luis Lopez’s knockout of Conlan, if I wasn’t picking Conlan by decision, I was picking Lopez by knockout. That wasn’t like a total shocker. I mean, that was sort of like one of the two most logical outcomes. And Leigh Wood regaining it in the manner he did, not a total shocker in any way, particularly because we had so much goofiness with the weight miss, and we said before and we didn’t like even picking that fight with the money line, the whole nine yards. The shocker was Okolie losing the way he did against Billam-Smith. So that’s what makes the world go around. We like a good upset once in a while, and the last weekend [inaudible 00:03:38].
TJ Rives:
We do. And we got a couple of fights that we’re going to take a look at, including a women’s undisputed world title middleweight fight here in just a second.
First of all, thank you again for hanging out here with us. If you watch us live, or even if you’re watching us later on Friday or Saturday in the full form, thank you for finding us here on Bet US TV. Again, hit the like button if you are with us right now. Make sure you are subscribed to this channel. We keep climbing. I keep saying, if we get to later this summer, the now announced and confirmed, Errol Spence-Terrence Crawford, world welter weight undisputed title fight, I want to see us have 2,500 subscribers or more. I believe we can get there with your help. Hit that subscribe button if you enjoy us, if you enjoy the content, because that’s going to alert us whenever that we’ve got new programming, whenever we’ve got the show clipped out, and our Bet US staff does a fantastic job of clipping out the fight predictions in form. If you’re subscribed, you’ll get those clips. Dan Rafael knows this. You’ll get those clips if you’re subscribed.
So hit subscribe, share us out, help us out. I see the live audience growing as we speak. We will have some time for some Q&A. But first, we’re all about the handicapping. And you know what, Dan Rafael? We always say this on BET US TV. We can’t do nothing about last week. The only thing we can do is right now try to help you out this week with some handicapping on the fights. Let’s get to it.
Women’s undisputed middleweight championship fight. This is Claressa Shields of Flint, Michigan, fighting a home away from home fight in Detroit, headlining on DAZN, coming Saturday night from the Little Caesars Arena downtown Detroit. This is a late replacement opponent in Maricela Cornejo. Cornejo came into this fight about a week and a half ago. Shields heavily favored to win. So we’re going to get more into the how does she win, and when, W-H-E-N, does it end or not. You see an over/under of 8.5 rounds. Shields again undisputed at 160 pounds in women’s boxing. Former undisputed champion as well at 154 pounds. She’s one of the most decorated fighters in all of women’s boxing. Dan, some thoughts and a prediction on what’s going to happen here.
Dan Rafael:
Well, sometimes we go on these shows and we talk about, “Oh, I don’t know who to pick,” or, “It’s a close fight,” or this or that, or you can see a lot of different ways that this fight might go. I mean, no knock on Cornejo at all. She’s been a good fighter and a good contender for a while and all that. But listen, Claressa Shields right now, she is the number one women’s boxer in the world. In my opinion it’s really not that close, especially given Katie Taylor’s recent defeat. She’s just a winner through and through. She had one loss as an amateur fighter, about 80 fights, and she avenged that in the pros in her most recent fight when she went to England and fought on Savannah Marshall’s home turf and beat her in a pretty good fight to reclaim the WBO middleweight belt to become, once again, the undisputed champion.
So, she’s the undisputed champion at middleweight twice. And the only reason that’s twice is because she was undisputed, she gave up the WBO title to allow some other fight to take place. And then she went and she fought Savannah who had won that belt and became a two-time undisputed. Like you mentioned, she was also undisputed at 154. When she began her career at super middleweight she unified titles in that weight class, wasn’t undisputed but a unified champion nonetheless.
So she’s a three-time undisputed champion, she’s won titles in three weight classes. She’s a two-time Olympic gold medal winner, she’s in her prime right now. She also does MMA for what it’s worth. And she’s a novice in that particular sport. She’s the best women’s fighter in the world, and there’s nobody in her class in my opinion right now. And again, Cornejo has been a good contender, but as I say, sometimes you’re talking about free money on this type of fight. I see almost no possibility unless something absolutely freakish happens that Claressa Shields loses this fight. There’s an old saying we have in boxing these days, TJ, it’s, “Death, taxes and Shields by decision.”
TJ Rives:
Is that the saying that we have? She’s one a bunch of world title fights, and all of them have been decision fights. And you see there on the screen, it is a little enticing to maybe take her on the KO prop, but if I’m correct, only two knockouts, only two stoppages, right? For Claressa Shields.
Dan Rafael:
Yeah, she’s not a puncher at all. She’s a skillful boxer. I mean, she’s tenacious and she’ll go at you. But the one thing that does lack in her game is the power, it’s just not there. Yeah, we always talk about this no matter what the fight is, it’s always possible. I mean, when two human beings are punching each other, stuff happens. But to me that’s a sucker bet on the KO, I don’t care what the number is.
TJ Rives:
And again, for Cornejo, elaborate a little bit. You talked about this on our big fight weekend preview podcast. She’s been in with world championship competition before, so this is a credible challenger here. Say a little bit more about her and then make your pick.
Dan Rafael:
Listen, I like this matchup actually in many ways better than the original matchup. And just to back up for a quick minute. The original opponent was Hannah Gabriels. She was a three-time, or a three-division world champion. She had fought in a middleweight championship fight against Claressa in 2018, I believe it was. And it was Shields who won that fight, picked up two of the vacant middleweight belts on that night. And the big hook, so to speak, of the rematch that they were supposed to engage in, was because despite the fact that Claressa was the big winner in that fight, the only woman that has ever scored a knockdown against Claressa in the professional ranks, or in the amateur ranks, was Hannah Gabriels. So they were playing off like, okay, she got me in a knockdown, and I’m going to give her a rematch and knock her out, so to speak.
Anyway, as you mentioned, Cornejo came in about a week and a half ago, and that was because Hannah Gabriels had a positive drug test for a banned substance, for anabolic steroid that was positive. She was positive for a VADA test. She claims that the substance that she tested positive for was something that was a medication that she was rubbing on her pet dog that had had a surgery, and that was part of the healing process. I mean, I’ve heard a lot of crazy stories. I mean, that actually sounds kind of credible, if you ask me.
TJ Rives:
She’s claiming that she got it on her fingers, rubbed it on her dog, and that’s how she tested positive. And I came up with the line then, and I repeat it now on Bet US TV, there’s the dog ate my homework, and now, in Hannah Gabriels’s case, the dog failed my VADA drug test. I’m not sure if we believe that. But she’s out, Cornejo is in, but you don’t think it makes a difference. You think this is Claressa Shields all the way.
Dan Rafael:
I do think it’s c Claressa shields all the way. And I would’ve said the same if she was going to be facing Hannah Gabriels in the fight instead. But the positive aspect of this, as it relates to Cornejo, is that she makes the point, and it’s true, she was already training for a fight that was supposed to be this weekend, and she got the call and she was interested to make the fight with shields and be the replacement. And obviously, she was able to get out of that other fight. But she’s been in camp, she’s been training. This was not a short notice like, okay let me go get two weeks of training in, or I’ve been in the gym but I haven’t been sparring. She was training for an actual fight, and the difference now is she’s putting it off by one week.
So from that standpoint, she should be in good condition. She’s looked in good shape when we see them face to face at the news conference that they had this week. And also, as you mentioned, she has got experience, and she has fought for world titles three times. She fought for a title, lost a very close fight, a split decision to Kali Reis. She has challenged also in the middleweight and super middleweight division, she has fought Franchón Crews-Dezurn, who is probably one of the best women in boxing, right behind Claressa Shields.
In fact, Claressa and her fought each other in their professional debuts and it was a great action four rounder that Claressa won in a competitive fight. But Cornejo lost a super close fight to Franchón Crews-Dezurn the first time they met in a world title fight, and the second fight is a little bit more wide, and she lost in that rematch. But she’s an experienced fighter. But again, it’s like Claressa said in her comments in the press conference, “She’s a good fighter and I respect her, and she’s a talented fighter and she deserves to be in this position. But I just feel like I’m a league above all these other girls,” as she says. So I happen to agree with Claressa Shields, she’s the pound for pound number one in the women’s side of the sport, until further notice. Nothing’s changed in Saturday night.
TJ Rives:
And again, you and I are in agreement here Shields, and it’s going to go the route. It’s a 10-round, 10 two-minute rounds, 10-round fight, will both take Shields. Again, it’s astronomical, the Bet US line has Clarissa right now at 80-1 to win the fight. So you’re not going to get any value on the money line. You got to go decision here, we go decision on that. We’ll both take the over here on this, and we see somebody weighing in here that if Kalis couldn’t get the knockout of Cornejo, that Claressa Shield, and I’m going extension with the over. Yes, go ahead.
Dan Rafael:
Who is Kalis?
TJ Rives:
I guess that’s the opponent that Cornejo had, or one of the opponents. Maybe he misspelled the name, I’m not sure.
Dan Rafael:
The other [inaudible 00:12:21] by the way we should know about this is, besides all the other things that are in Claressa Shields’ favor, she’s fighting at home, basically. I mean, she’s from Flint, Michigan, this is going to be a huge Claressa crowd. She’s the reason they’re putting this fight on in that big arena in Detroit. It’s the first ever boxing event that they place at that arena, which is the home court for the NBA Detroit Pistons, as well as the NHL’s Detroit Red Wings. So everything is aligned for her. I mean, it wouldn’t matter if it was Gabriels, if it was Cornejo, it was you, if it was me, whatever. This is Claressa’s night, and it’s she’s going to shine, in my opinion.
TJ Rives:
And we’ll see how many tickets, and we’ve talked about this on the podcast as well. Detroit’s a huge fight town, going back to Joe Lewis, moving forward to Thomas Hearns and all the Kronk fighters, let’s see what kind of crowd they get, what kind of crowd she has, and if it will be a big night for Claressa Shields defending undisputed middleweight championships, four of them in the main event on DAZN for Saturday.
All right. We continue on the program. Again, thank you for finding us. Let’s get to the fight, just proceeding the Shields main event. This is a contender bout with another fighter from Flint, Michigan. Again, a regional home away from home situation for Ardreal Holmes, Holmes, an unbeaten 154 pounder. He’s kind of the A side, if you want, against a Haitian born fighter out of New York named Wendy Toussaint, who’s actually got a pretty good record, and has been in arguably, Dan Rafael, with better competition than Holmes. So Holmes is favored slightly about 3-1 on the Bet US line. Toussaint is kind of an interesting 2.5-1 underdog. You see our over/under is 8.5. These are 154 pounders. This is the co feature fight in Detroit Saturday night. A thought and a prediction, Dan Rafael, on this one.
Dan Rafael:
So this is sort of an interesting fight to me, because Ardreal Holmes, he is sort of the more of the prospect, let’s say. A guy that does have a future. Now, he’s not a prospect who’s 21 or 22, he’s already 28, but he got a little bit of a late start on his professional career. But he’s looked pretty good. He is undefeated, it’s going to be a home fight for him also, essentially. He has been a training partner of Claressa Shields, that’s one of the reasons he’s on his cards, they have been friendly for a number of years. So it’s like you mentioned, he’s the A side, it’s sort of set up for him. He’s the one that seems to have the bigger future as he builds his resume. But it’s not a bad opponent for him, because Toussaint, as you mentioned, he’s maybe got a little bit better of an overall collection of opponents he has faced.
But the knock on him I guess is on the one time he really stepped up. He’s won two fights in a row Toussaint, but in the fight that he lost, he got knocked out by Charles Conwell, who’s one of the better up-and-coming fighters in the sport. He was a United States Olympian, he is undefeated, and he has a bright future. And that was the step-up fight for Conwell, and they were both undefeated going into that fight, and Conwell knock him out, Toussaint. So that seems to me that the deck is a little bit stacked against Toussaint. He’s a good fighter, but he’s not a dynamic fighter. Not a big puncher, not the most speedy guy in the world, and it could be a little bit of a test for Holmes, but I really like Holmes in this fight. Neither one of them is blessed with the biggest punching power. I think this fight definitely goes the route. I took the over, it’s a 10-round fight, the over under, what was it, TJ? 8.5?
TJ Rives:
8.5, correct, on the 10 rounder.
Dan Rafael:
Yeah. So I went with the over on this. I think it goes all the way. And we’ll see if Holmes can continue his development. I mean, his biggest win I guess to date was in his last fight. He won a decision against Ismael Villarreal, who was undefeated. Also, considered a prospect at that time. They had very similar records, Villarreal I think was 12-0 at that time. And that was considered somebody’s taking a step forward, somebody’s taking a step back in that fight, that was kind of considered maybe like a 50-50 fight. It was Holmes that came out on top, and it was a competitive fight, but in a pretty decent fight. I just feel like he’s got some momentum right now, Holmes. Toussaint has the KO loss when he did step up. So if I have to pick the fight in the co-feature for Claressa’s title defense, I’m taking Holmes via decision.
TJ Rives:
And again, Holmes won that in a Showbox main event, the Prospect series. That was back in February. He’s been a little more recently active. Again, neither one of these guys very active. Toussaint hasn’t fought in a year. He fought on an undercard at the Madison Square Garden Theater on an ESPN Top Rank show and won an eight-round decision. But something says to me that Toussaint, who’s maybe been in with a little better competition, he might have something here. There is disagreement on a Friday on the Bet US Boxing Show. So just like last week, we didn’t agree a couple of times. We don’t agree here. You’ve got Holmes by decision. I don’t know if Toussaint can get the KO, or not. So from a handicapping standpoint, I’m just going to protect myself and take him on the money line. So let’s lock it in.
You’ve got Holmes on the decision laying 1-65. I will take Toussaint on the money line because the last thing I want is to take a knockout and have you ridicule me, and have it end up being a decision when for Toussaint. So I’m just going money line, I’m not going to mess with the over/under. You are going to take the over because you have the decision. The overlays 500 here, the boxing odds makers at Bet US and everywhere else believe this is a distance fight potentially. I think there could be some real drama here. Neither one of these guys, as you mentioned, big punchers, neither one of them very active. I think in Holmes’s case he’s only had a couple of fights in the last three years. He did have the one in February, but before that it was over a year ago. So we’ll see. Neither one of them very active. We will find out who wants it more here in this.
Dan Rafael:
You mentioned about the last fight that Toussaint had, which was in June of last year at the Madison Square Garden Theater, that was on the undercard of the light heavyweight unification fight between Artur Beterbiev and Joe Smith. I was ringside for that fight, and I got some good rest and relaxation during that Toussaint fight, because I took a little nap during that fight.
TJ Rives:
Toussaint didn’t do a whole lot to keep you interested or awake, I could tell.
Dan Rafael:
I mean, honestly, he won the fight pretty handily. My recollection is he won about seven rounds to one, whatever. It could have been eight to nothing. But it was a godawful fight, and it was sort of like sleeping [inaudible 00:18:30].
TJ Rives:
It was brought to you by Ambien, or No Doz, or something, trying to stay away.
Dan Rafael:
So I’m hopeful that reflects Holmes that someone will take the lead and try to step on the gas.
TJ Rives:
And again, we should mention Flint, Michigan here for Holmes. He will have partisan people there. If he does anything, the crowd should roar in Detroit. This is the fight right before the main event in the Little Caesar’s arena downtown Detroit. I by the way have been in that facility, state-of-the-art, a lot of these new NBA arenas are amazing. That one is state-of-the-art, and it’s interesting, this is the first big time boxing event that’s there after they had so many huge Thomas Hearns fights, for example, in the old Joe Lewis Arena, he was always fighting in the eighties, it seemed like in Joe Lewis Arena. And the Red Wings won Stanley Cups in the old Joe Lewis Arena. They’ve closed that place down now. Now this is the new arena, that’s where the Shields card is, and let’s see what happens in the co-feature for Holmes and Toussaint. With that, we have a little bonus time here, a little bonus Q&A with Dan Rafael. And by the way, I-
Dan Rafael:
I was thinking about other Detroit fights, and when I’ve been there, I’ve covered fights at the Palace of Auburn Hills, which no longer exists.
TJ Rives:
Yes, yes. That went out in the suburbs. And remember, they had old Cobo Hall, which is the big convention center next to Joe Lewis Arena, and Hearns fought there too. And I want to say Joe Lewis fought a world heavyweight title fight at Cobo Hall as well. So Detroit is a long-standing fight town. So this’ll be interesting to see what this card looks like on Saturday. Again, thank you for finding us here. Let’s get to some live Q&A. Hit the like button, make sure that you’re subscribed. I see the live audience has grown just since we began the show. We’ve about tripled in live audience. Keep it going, share the show out, and now you get a little extra bonus time of Q&A, with the one and only Dan Rafael. Yes, sir.
Dan Rafael:
You said Cobo Hall, made me think to myself. I actually covered a fight there also. It was a Floyd Mayweather fight years ago at Cobo Hall.
TJ Rives:
How about that? So again, this-
Dan Rafael:
Against Emmanuel Augustus on the old HBO KO Nation Show. As a matter of fact, my memory serves, that was on a Saturday, late afternoon. We were there because Friday night in Auburn Hills, we were at the Mike Tyson-Andrew Golota fight, and myself and some of the other reporters, we kind of caravan from Auburn Hills down to Detroit. We had covered Tyson against Golota, and then we went to that late afternoon Mayweather card, covered that, and then flew home after the fight.
TJ Rives:
So there you go on some of the nostalgia in and around Detroit, and again, the Palace of Auburn Hills is also where the Pistons used to play. They also used to play in Joe Louis Arena, but they’ve now torn that arena down, believe it or not. They’ve blown it up and they’re going to put housing and whatever else out in the suburbs of Detroit. This is right smack in the middle of downtown Detroit, Little Caesar’s Arena.
Dan Rafael:
I know we’re a boxing wagering show, but do you want to know the other thing, or one of the other things I’ve seen at the Palace of Auburn Hills?
TJ Rives:
Yeah, are you going to tell me Mr. Kiss, that you saw Kiss at the Palace of Auburn Hills? I guess that’s your favorite rock band.
Dan Rafael:
That’s my favorite rock band. But I went to see, my wife and I, to see one of our favorite pop stars one summer, around my birthday. We flew to Auburn Hills to go see Madonna during her live HBO concert.
TJ Rives:
Oh, really?
Dan Rafael:
Yes, Sir.
TJ Rives:
How many times did you see Madonna Live, while we digress on the Q&A? Just that time, or other times?
Dan Rafael:
No, I’ve seen Madonna live probably about, I’d say like four times probably.
TJ Rives:
How about that? I didn’t make you from Madonna person. I know you’ve talked about Kiss all the time, but I go back, I have the cassette tapes.
Dan Rafael:
Well, that was talking about rock and roll, we weren’t talking about pop music. There’s a difference.
TJ Rives:
I have a couple of cassette tapes of Madonna. How old does that make me from the 1980s?
Dan Rafael:
Exactly.
TJ Rives:
Back when cassette tapes were a thing, and nobody knows what those are anymore. Nobody can play them anymore.
Dan Rafael:
Listen for that Madonna show at Auburn Hills, we sat in the fourth row center, it was unbelievable.
TJ Rives:
Nothing but the best for Mr. Rafael, we know that.
All right, so somebody had a comment, if you want to put that back up. There it is Antonio, thank you from Bet US. He says, “I know Eduardo Baez, he’s kind of Euro level. You’re going to talk about this one… I’m looking for Baez and when the fight is. Is that fight this weekend, or is it a week from now?
Dan Rafael:
I’m not even sure. I mean, Eduardo Baez, I know who he is. He was a recent title challenger against Emmanuel Navarrete, if my memory serves, but I’m not sure what fight he is talking about in particular.
TJ Rives:
All right, he can ask again. I’m looking for next weekend and I don’t even see Baez on next week’s slate off of your schedule. So I don’t know what fight that he is talking about in that regard. Let’s move on on other-
Dan Rafael:
[inaudible 00:22:49] wants to put the question back in, I’m curious, because I can’t-
TJ Rives:
Where? Where and against whom? Yeah, if he wants to ask another question, he can ask that. All right. Bipolar Boxing Picks says, “Can you guy guys break down the Ali Izmailov?” Is that close to correct? Next week, he says, “I will be ringside for is Izmailov.” What about that?
Dan Rafael:
I forget the opponent’s name off the top of my head, but Ali Izmailov, if there is an A side for Showbox fights, that’s the main event on Showbox.
TJ Rives:
Charles Foster, light heavyweight showdown. Yes.
Dan Rafael:
Light heavyweight. So that’s the main event on Showbox next week, which is kind of a cool card, and Showtime with Showbox does this on a regular basis pretty much annually. It is the card that they have that is part of the International Boxing Hall of Fame induction weekend, which takes place one week from Sunday, the induction. So this is the card that will take place Friday night.
And look, Ali is like an up-and-coming light heavyweight, he’s definitely a guy to keep an eye on. The way that Showbox and the folks that handle the program, they do a very good job, Gordon Hall in particular, they do a good job of trying to match up legit prospects, but there’s always a separation. Ali is, I think, probably the bigger prospect, let’s say, than Foster is. But if you’re going to the fight, I would hope that you have a great time, because they got a nice facility up there at Turning Stone. I’ve been there for several fights over the years, and if you’re going to stick around for the weekend, by all means take in the Hall of Fame celebration and all that, because it’s something I always say to people, if you’re a boxing fan and you’re making a list of things you want to do and one of them is to go see a big fight in Vegas, or a big fight at Madison Square Garden, or whatever, put the Boxing Hall of Fame weekend on your bucket list also, because that’s what this is part of.
TJ Rives:
Okay. Somebody’s asking, Jack is saying to us in the live chat that the Baez fight is actually tonight. Jonathan Lopez-Eduardo Baez, Temecula, California, featherweights, eight rounder. Do you know much of anything about Jonathan Lopez?
Dan Rafael:
I mean, now that you say it, it is the main event, like a club card in California. No TV to my knowledge. I have no opinion on Lopez. Don’t know him.
TJ Rives:
Yep. Don’t know anything about that. And I’ll look for a line here in a minute if I can find it. By the way, Bipolar is asking us, Bipolar Boxing Picks. He’s asking, “Is big Dan at the Hall of Fame ceremony next week?” He wants to know any chance that he might see you at the Hall of Fame.
Dan Rafael:
I have been to the Hall of Fame on a number of occasions through the years. I will not be there next week. I will be next weekend in New York City covering the Josh Taylor-Teofimo Lopez junior welterweight title fight. And that’s unfortunate, because the Hall of Fame is on the same weekend every year, and inevitably that weekend has almost universally hosted a fight card. I have probably covered over the last 20 plus years a boxing event on the Hall of Fame weekend that’s not near the Hall of Fame most of those years. For example, one of the Gatti-Ward fights was that weekend. The first fight that I covered between Oscar de la Hoya and Shane Mosley was that weekend. Lennox Lewis against Mike Tyson was that weekend. It is the weekend of the Puerto Rican parade in New York, so I can’t tell you how many years in a row I was in New York covering a Miguel Cotto fight that weekend.
This coming weekend it’s going to be Taylor-Teofimo. Also on Puerto Rican Day weekend they have the hot Puerto Rican prospect, Xander Zayas, in the co-feature. So yeah, logistically, if you go to the Hall of Fame, you don’t want to just run in for an hour and go to the inductions, you want to take in the whole weekend, because there’s so much great stuff to do, and people to see, and stuff to talk about, and think about it, and just enjoy the parade, and the inductions, and the big champions dinner, and the whole thing, that it just makes no sense logistically to go cover the fight on Saturday night. You’ve been up late, late, late and then get up and have to trek from New York City to Canastota, which by car is probably like, I don’t know, about a four-hour drive maybe to get there, doesn’t make any sense.
So it’s unfortunate, because I have a lot of people that are being inducted over the years, who I’ve known or been friends with, in fact, one of my closest friends in boxing is Brad Goodman, the matchmaker for Top Rank, who I’ve known long before either of us were in our current roles. I’ve known him for almost 30 years. He’s being inducted well deserved, and he’ll be there. Matter of fact, he’s with Top Rank and himself and his colleague Brad Jacobs also from Top Rank. They have a Top Rank event the night before, and they both have the weekend off, because they’re going to obviously go enjoy their Hall of Fame induction ceremony. So good luck to them and all the inductees, but unfortunately I won’t be there this coming weekend.
TJ Rives:
All right. More questions at a second. By the way, on the Lopez-Baez fight, I looked on the Bet US line, Jonathan Lopez is the favorite. He is a 3-1 favorite. That is a 10-round fight officially with an over/under 8.5, if you’re interested in wagering on that one. But as big Dan says, stay away, unless you just think you have an angle. Unless you think you have an angle, just be careful, because if you’re saying you don’t know a lot about it, just be careful unless you think you [inaudible 00:27:38].
Dan Rafael:
I mean, Baez, he did give, I think it was Navarrete, a tough fight, when they had their fight. He was winning the fight until he got clocked. But yeah, I mean, Lopez, I’m not familiar with, so not my kind of betting fight, I suppose.
TJ Rives:
All right. TJ question, and it’s a loaded one. The social media warfare between Oscar de la Hoya and Ryan Garcia has just been going on and on for about 24 hours now, where De la Hoya, as the promoter wants to try to get Ryan signed up and back in the ring, Ryan is still brooding for a lot of different reasons, and it’s playing out where all of us can watch on social media. So Dan, what do you make of this? Because some are wondering whether Ryan Garcia isn’t going to try to get out of his deal, like Canelo Alvarez got out of his deal with Golden Boy Promotions. What do you make of that mess right now?
Dan Rafael:
Well, I do think that he wants out of the deal, but the reasons and the ways that that could occur, the comparisons to Canelo start and stop with they both want out. The minutiae of the reasons and the way that Canelo extricated himself are completely different than what’s happening here with Garcia. But Garcia and Oscar de la Hoya, just have this terrible back and forth with each other. They’ve had a strained relationship for a long time. Even when they patch things up, it was never perfect, obviously. And obviously, he’s coming off of a loss to Tank Davis.
And I think Oscar, for the promoter, you can go read all the disastrous nonsense on Twitter, if you want. But all the things that Oscar said that, even if you believe it, were he blaming him for the loss about the rehydration clause, and complaining about this, complaining about that, really calling out his own fighter. Even if you believe all of that to be the case, if you want to keep your fighter and make money with your fighter, and you care about your fighter, it’s not the kind of thing you go on social media and talk about it. I suspect that Oscar might have woke up this morning, and kind of smacked himself in the head going, “Oh, my God, what did I do?” Because if you want to alienate the fighter, he did a good job of it last night.
TJ Rives:
He did an A plus job. And this is the meal ticket guy for Golden Boy Promotions. This is not just any fighter in his stable, this is the fighter in his stable, that he’s messing with publicly.
Dan Rafael:
Look, TJ, he had two major guys: Canelo Alvarez, who was the biggest star in boxing, and the heir apparent was Ryan Garcia. He alienated Canelo, and he walked. And now he’s in the process of doing the same with Ryan, who granted is under a contract for, I am told until the end of 2026. But a couple of things. Number one, never saw a contract fight. And if they’re going to play hardball the way they did, Oscar’s going to say the things he is, Ryan can give it right back and they’re going to just make everybody miserable. And at some point they will find some kind of breach, or they will find a reason, they will file a lawsuit, it will cost everybody time and money. Ryan Garcia just made the estimates are maybe as much as $30 million for the Tank Davis fight. So he’s got a few dollars to spare if they want to go tangle in the litigation arena.
His advisor, Guadalupe Valencia, got no problem, but he’s a lawyer also, no problem. You want to go to trial and tangle with him, he plays hardball also. It’s a real mess, and Oscar is not helping it with the things that he’s saying. Very inflammatory unnecessarily. Before you tweet things like that, he needs to ask himself, “How does this in any way help me or my company?” It doesn’t.
TJ Rives:
Sure. Agree.
Dan Rafael:
So I would say if anybody out there from Golden Boy Promotions is watching, take your boss’s phone away for five minutes and don’t let him tweet.
TJ Rives:
Put the Twitter down. Yes. Put the Twitter down.
Dan Rafael:
Or let him have his phone, but delete the app from the phone. Goodness me.
TJ Rives:
Yeah. More time for Q&A here for a few more minutes, if you’ve got something for Dan. JC is watching us, and on the breaking news about Gervonta Tank Davis being locked up last night in Baltimore. So we put our podcast to bed and then the story was out on Thursday night that Gervonta Davis went before the judge late Thursday, and has now been put in the Baltimore County jail as we speak for the remainder of his 90-day sentence that was supposed to be home confinement. All right, so JC says, “Do we know what Tank did to violate?” The answer to that is that the media is now reporting that in the court proceeding yesterday, there are two instances where Davis was at another home, if not his home, and was also at downtown Baltimore Hotel, not at the home of Calvin Ford, his trainer, where he was supposed to be on “home confinement,” stay there, either be there or be at the gym. So violating the terms of the home confinement means he got locked up. Dan, what is your thought and your reaction to all of that right now?
Dan Rafael:
My thought or reaction are that there are two constants in life at the moment. Tank Davis is a very talented boxer, and not that smart as a person. Because number one, it’s one thing if you’re trying to evade, even if you shouldn’t do that, and maybe you think you can get away with it and not get caught, but the guy’s wearing an ankle bracelet, apparently. They’re going to know where you are. So he should have already been counting his lucky stars, so to speak, because he was sentenced to, if I recall, 26 months locked up.
TJ Rives:
Correct.
Dan Rafael:
And the judge suspended the sentence, said, okay, you don’t have to do 26 months in the jail, but you can do 90 days at home. And that home was going to be the home, because Tank lives in Florida, even though he’s from Baltimore. So his coach, Calvin Ford, agreed and told the court that he would provide the place for him to stay, and that Gervonta could live in Calvin Ford’s home.
So 90 days compared to 26 months behind bars, that’s like a walk in the park. I was joking around with you. I mean, I’m not a criminal, I’ve never been arrested, but if you said to me and I did something and my luck was good, and the judge gave me 90 days of home confinement, I could do 90 days at home, no problem. I got a big TV, and I got a nice backyard, and I got my office, and the computer. You can do your normal life. You may not be able to go to different places and all that, but there’s a lot worse things than if I was stuck in my house for 90 days. We did it during the pandemic, pretty much. Not a problem.
TJ Rives:
Yes, we did.
Dan Rafael:
So for Gervonta, a couple of weeks after this, I mean, he was sentenced in the early part of May. We’re not even one month past his sentencing, and he’s already screwed up. It didn’t just go once and have an excuse. This apparently was multiple times. Even if you were going to a house you were buying, apparently that was part of it, whatever. You’re going to a nightclub, you’re going to a hotel…
TJ Rives:
Allegedly going to a nightclub as well.
Dan Rafael:
I don’t think it’s allegedly. It’s not allegedly, because the judge put him in jail. I mean, again, I’m not trying to knock a guy while he is down, and I don’t wish bad on Tank Davis by any means, but that’s just not smart. That’s just being dumb.
TJ Rives:
It is dumb. And he’s now locked up for now. And again, he’s got community service, 200 hours of it, and probation that is again part of the contingency to keep him out of jail on the 26th month sentence. So let’s see if he learns a lesson here for the next couple of months.
Dan Rafael:
You know what? Here’s the thing. He’s not going to learn a lesson. And the reason why? It’s one thing if you get in trouble and you get scared straight, let’s say. “Oh, my God, I can’t do it,” you’re genuinely sorry. He is habitual. This is not his first incident. This was going on while there was still a domestic violence case in Florida against him. Now, that case was ultimately dropped because the woman that accused him in the first place recanted and refused to testify. But that happens a lot of times in these types of cases. And that was only a one other case.
He’s had, as a guy that’s like 28 years old or so, Gervonta Davis has a wrap sheet in the court system, in the legal system that is a mile long. So, this is not an isolated incident, this is a habitual offender. He’s given a certain amount of leeway, I guess, because he is famous, he’s a star, whatever, a top athlete. And eventually, that’s going to come back to haunt him, I think. You just can’t keep getting away with that stuff. And the judge did what she had to do. He broke the rules-
TJ Rives:
She did what she warned him that she was going to do when she let him go on May the fifth, that, “I will lock you up if you don’t comply here,” and that’s exactly what happened on Thursday.
Few moments left. Fire in a question for Q&A. I’m curious, because we talked about this before, you mentioned that next week, the Teofimo Lopez challenge of Josh Taylor, main event, Top Rank, ESPN fight. We had talked before that fight was scheduled, and may still be scheduled for the Hulu Theater next to Madison Square Garden. There was a possibility if the Rangers hockey and the Knicks basketball were both eliminated, which they’ve both been long eliminated, they might move that to the big main Madison Square Garden arena. I see you shaking your head no. So it’s still going to be in the Hulu Theater as far as we know for this week.
Dan Rafael:
That’s long off the table. That was something that they thought might be a possibility at the very beginning, but that was never really something that anybody pursued, or that anybody thought was legit. This is going to be in the Hulu Theater. They’ll have a good crowd there, and it’s a very good fight. Obviously, Josh Taylor is undefeated. He is the reigning WBO champion, but he’s also the lineal champion. Remember, he had become undisputed when he defeated Jose Ramirez, unified all four titles. He then defended those titles against Jack Catterall. They had a very controversial decision, and they tried to make a rematch, and various things happened, whether it was logistics related to their British broadcaster, or injuries, and different things. Ended up putting that fight off and off, and eventually, because he was pursuing that rematch, he had other mandatories to do, and Jack, rather Josh Taylor allowed himself to be stripped, or vacated, because he wanted the Jack Catterall rematch. So he’s left with the one belt.
Teofimo Lopez was the mandatory. Taylor was going to do the Catterall fight when Taylor suffered a foot injury, and the fight was finally put off yet again. The WBO, whose number one contender is Teofimo Lopez, finally stepped and said, “Enough, now you got to fight Teofimo Lopez,” they ended up making that match. And listen, they’re both obviously very good fighters, but they both have questions to answer. Catterall, to a lot of people defeated Taylor. That fight was February of last year, so it’s been a while since Josh has been in the ring. Teofimo Lopez obviously was the unified champion in the lightweight division, had a huge victory against Vasiliy Lomachenko, and was one of the rising stars in the sport.
And then he had that hellacious battle with George Kambosos and suffered the humongous upset. Had some injuries, lost the titles, moved up in weight, looked okay in the first fight at 140 against Pedro Campa. Looked really terrible in a win, and got knocked down against Sandro Martin this past December in a fight that I went to at Madison Square Garden. So they both come in with question marks, but it’s very intriguing fight, and the winner is going to put himself as, probably, who should be considered maybe the number one guy in that weight class at 140 pounds. And there’ll be a lot of other possibilities for major fights for that winner.
TJ Rives:
All right. The boxing writer had a comment that he threw in here that Josh Taylor’s trying to regain some momentum. David Payne, we thank you for watching. Here we thank everybody for watching. Taylor again was undisputed until he vacated three of the belts here. Interesting on the Bet US line, we’ll talk more about this next week, that Josh Taylor is only a -175 favorite in Lopez’s home away from home there in New York. Teofimo is plus +145 on the money line for that fight. We’ll handicap that next week and Dan will be there in attendance.
We’ve got just another moment before we get to the best bets and any other questions that we might have. The Oleksandr Usyk, wait a minute. Ese, if I have that right, says, “What do you think about the weight issue with Lara last week, and was it fair that they didn’t let him try?” He means let him try to make the weight for the reasons that they gave. They thought it was a little dangerous, the British Boxing Board of Control. Was that unfair to Laura in your estimation, Dan, before he was beaten by Leigh Wood in the rematch? What do you think?
Dan Rafael:
I don’t think it was. I mean, he had-
TJ Rives:
Two bouts that we’ve handicapped. Women’s undisputed middleweight title fight agreement from Dan Rafael and me. We think this will be Claressa Shields by decision. She wins a bunch, and she seemingly only wins by decision. This is in Detroit, home away from home situation for her. And so we’re also taking the over including the decision prop. Meantime, the co-feature fight on that card Ardreal Holmes, who is a Flint, Michigan fighter, undefeated. He is part of the stable there that Claressa Shields is in. He is fighting in the co-feature fight against Wendy Toussaint. These are 154 pounders. Holmes is unbeaten, Toussaint, one loss. Dan and I differ. He takes Holmes by decision. I think Toussaint will win somehow, some way. I’m not getting hung up on KO, or knockout, and Dan is still mocking me for making that upset pick. I had Billam-Smith last week. Am I going to be two for two on the upsets?
Dan Rafael:
Let me just say, even a blind squirrel gets a nut once in a while.
TJ Rives:
I understand that. And I enjoyed the nut last week on Billam-Smith, and that victory. Okay, with that, anything else in closing here before we wrap it up? The month of June is here. We got some title fights coming, not just with Claressa this weekend. We mentioned Josh Taylor-Teofimo Lopez. Next week Regis Prograis defending his 140 pound title later in the month. Some action packed title fights here in June. I know we’re excited to get it underway.
Dan Rafael:
Yeah, I mean, not a big weekend this week, no knock on Claressa, but that’s the only game in town pretty much. And I like the busy calendar. Last week we had the fights that were basically almost on at the exact same time. We had four shows between Billam-Smith-Okolie, and the Alexis Rocha fight in the later part of the evening. Plus, the two featherweight fights with Leigh Wood and Lopez. So that was a little bit too much this week. We just got the one fight card that’s of consequence. So I kind of like a little bit. I wouldn’t mind two, but I’m okay with one. We need to unwind it.
TJ Rives:
We’re good. We’ll kind of ease into June a little bit here. All right, my friend. Have a good weekend as always. We always love having you here. They need to go and listen to more of us on the back and forth about Ryan Garcia. Tim Tszyu, by the way, is still scheduled to fight in a couple of weeks in Australia, the Australian junior middleweight star, after a dog bite. You’ll hear more on that on the Big Fight Weekend podcast. There’s a tease. Go listen to Big Fight Weekend podcast.
Dan Rafael:
By the way, just so you know, TJ, Tim, because Australia, were on the opposite timeline of them, I have a audio and a video of them talking to the media. Tim is going to fight. I guess he’s okay, good enough, anyway. He still got the bandages and the stitches. They come out in a week or so.
TJ Rives:
The dog caused 20 plus stitches in his arm to possibly derail the fight two weeks from now, but he believes he’s going to be able to fight. That’s good news.
Dan Rafael:
Yeah. The only bad part is there was one fight that got knocked off that show because…
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