TJ Rives:
Well, hello there and happy Friday. And welcome back to the BetUS boxing show. It’s great to be back with you. I’m TJ Rives, our insider Dan Rafael is aboard. Always love getting to chop it up with this man on a Friday, as we get ready for another weekend of boxing that it doesn’t have a massive fight, but it has some interesting fighters in different locations from Miami to New York, to Anaheim, California. Dan, good to have you back. How you feeling? And are you ready to touch them up? You’re ready to go here?
Dan Rafael:
I’m not fighting, TJ. I’m just picking the fights. [inaudible 00:00:45].
TJ Rives:
And by the way, that is a great segue of if you were not with this and you have not heard, we got a little bit of a role going on. I don’t know if it qualifies as a heater as of yet, but Dan Rafael last week five and one, thank you. We bow on his predictions and his picks on this show. And even the host came up three and one last week. Now we did overlap with some of the same picks, but if you were listening to our short term advice, you did well on the BetUS boxing show last week. But that’s last week, as we often like to say on these shows, “Nobody cares about last week.” Can’t do anything about last week, good or bad. We only care about this week and the fights that are going to be happening. As you see below us, there are ways to stay engaged with this show, including in the live chat right now.
TJ Rives:
If you are with us, for example, on the BetUS TV, YouTube page, we will see your comments in the live chat. Put those in there coming up as we go along. Again, we are here live at 1:00 PM Eastern Time on Fridays. As I like to say, adjust your time zone accordingly. If you’re seeing us later on Friday or on Saturday, make it a point. If you want to interact, especially with Dan for the insight. The man has covered the sport for the better part of 25 years on the worldwide level, been all over the globe covering fights. If you want to get some questions and some comments in, this is the place to do it on the BetUS boxing show. In addition to some, as I like to say, short term investment advice as well. So you see some odd scrolling on the bottom of the screen.
TJ Rives:
We’re ready to participate and have fun with all of you and why don’t we get things underway without further delay with fight number one. It is a heavyweight bout everything often seems to crank up more with the heavyweights. A couple of lesser known guys in Daniel Dubois from England, a rising star from England that did suffer a defeat a couple of years ago, but is now back on the comeback trail to challenge for a heavyweight championship. He is fighting an American in Trevor Bryan who holds the secondary version of the WBA heavyweight championship. These guys to square off in Miami, Florida Saturday afternoon. This fight is coming. You see our ads there, Bryan from upstate New York, Dubois from England. Bryan right now to win by knockout. Man, those are some tasty boxing odds to win by either knockout or decision. Dubois obviously heavily favored and heavily favored to win by knockout are over under his three and a half. Dan Rafael let’s begin with you. Assess this heavyweight title fight and which ways are you leaning on it, sir?
Dan Rafael:
Well look, the thing that people would… Look if you just look at the records, you’d see that Trevor Bryan is undefeated 22 and 0, and you would look at Daniel Dubois and see that he is 17 and one with a loss and be like, “Well, maybe the guy that’s undefeated is better than the guy with the one loss.” But then you’d dig deeper into the backgrounds, into the resumes of these two guys and nothing against Trevor Bryan, who actually is I think better than some people give him credit for. He’s not that well known. He’s had long stretches of inactivity. He’s now though fighting now for the second time in just six months. He had a victory in his first offense of this second tier title back in January in a… What was a very entertaining fight against Jonathan Guidry, who was a late replacement. But Daniel Dubois comes with a lot more publicity, a lot more heat behind him, a lot more promotion behind him and his one loss, if you’re going to lose is certainly what would qualify as a forgivable loss.
Dan Rafael:
It was a knockout loss to Joe Joyce, his British Countryman. They were fighting for in their part of the world, all the marbles of the non world championships. They were fighting for the Commonwealth title, the British title and the European title. It was a terrific fight. And you know, Joe Joyce imposed himself late in that fight and he broke Daniel Dubois eye socket. He took and went down from that and it was a serious injury. And so, some people got on Dubois case and said, “Oh, he quit. And he doesn’t have any heart and this and that.” And I’m like, “I don’t know if you’ve ever had a broken eye socket.” And they’re broken eye sockets come in different ways. Some are a lot worse than others.
TJ Rives:
Right.
Dan Rafael:
You’ve seen that injury and other fights. It happened with Billy Joe Saunders against Canello Alvarez.
TJ Rives:
There’s never been a broken eye socket that wasn’t painful. That’s your point.
Dan Rafael:
Oh, for sure.
TJ Rives:
And especially with a heavyweight punching you in the face, continue.
Dan Rafael:
Yes. And so Dubois the fight was over. He didn’t get up. And that was the end of the day. And he had a recovery period and he lived the fight another day. He has won two bouts in a row since that fight. One of those bouts was in America. He’s now returning to America to fight. Now you mentioned that Trevor Bryan is from Upstate New York. He actually comes from… He’s connected to New York and very close to where I grew up, but he has now for the last several years been based in South Florida in Fort Lauderdale. So he is basically fighting a home game. His promoter is Don King, it’s Don King’s card. He is the “A side” in terms of the local promotion, because it’s his title. But this fight, the reason why they’re doing the broadcast at four o’clock in the afternoon on pay review is because Dubois has a pretty big name in UK boxing circles, where it’ll be on, in a more palatable time for the Brits to watch the fight.
Dan Rafael:
So, that’s the reason for the earlier the normal start time. But Dubois is the favorite for a reason. He’s a tremendous puncher. He’s younger. He is got a little bit more heat behind him. He has probably a better opponent in terms of Joe Joyce, but the negative of that is that he lost, but it’s still hard to see Trevor Bryan who’s not really a huge puncher and not the most technically gifted fighter. Although I think he’s got some heart going 12 rounds and surviving the onslaught of the punching power of Daniel Dubois.
TJ Rives:
So I think you and I are in agreement. Dubois big time puncher, including the loss to Joyce, which again, I agree with you. These guys were both amateur stars in England. Joyce ended up going on to win what silver medal in the Olympics. Dubois elected to turn pro rather than go the Olympics route in 2016 or 2020. So Joyce won that fight, but in and around that Joyce loss five fights for Daniel Dubois all of them have been knockouts within the first two rounds. So, that’s why the odds makers on BetUS and everywhere else are looking at this matchup with Bryan and putting that over under at three and a half, which we’ll get to in a couple of moments.
TJ Rives:
So, I think right off the bat, you and I are in agreement. We think this is a Daniel Dubois knockout. That is a great value play here. You’re going to have to lay a little bit more. So let’s lock Dan in on Dubois by K.O. You see it there, and I will take the same. So even though you’re having to lay $5 to win one, to me, that’s the play. If Trevor Bryan is still around in the eighth or the ninth round comes Saturday late afternoon US time, Saturday night UK time, I’m shocked, Dan. Quick thought on that. I don’t think he’s going to make it that far.
Dan Rafael:
I mean, I won’t be shocked if he goes deeper into the fight. Three and a half, I felt like is a little generous to Dubois. There’s nothing in Trevor’s background. I know he hasn’t fought the top guys, but I’ve never really seen him hurt or stumbling around or anything like that, where you look at him and you don’t think you can at least hang in there for a little while, while we both are picking the knockout. I think it goes past three and a half round. I think he takes him in a little bit deeper and not a lot. I don’t think it’s getting to like around 10, 11, 12, but if it was 5, 6, 7, that would not be a shock to me. Three and a half, I think is maybe just a touch early.
Dan Rafael:
I mean, we’ll see. I mean, Dubois has looked okay since he’s come back, but again, he hasn’t fought top fighters and I’m not saying that Bryan is a top fighter, but in my estimation, he’s certainly better than the couple of guys that Dubois has faced since he’s come off the injury and the return of following the loss to Joe Joyce. So, this is an interesting fight to me. First of all, from the standpoint of just a non wagering, just in terms of entertainment value, I do think we’re looking at a fun fight. Look, I don’t really give a lot of credence or regard to the belt. That’s at stake here, but that’s the reason why the fight’s happening. If the belt wasn’t there Daniel Dubois would not be traveling across the Atlantic to fight Trevor Bryan in what amounts to his hometown.
Dan Rafael:
So, I’ll give credit if… Maybe it’s a backhanded compliment that in one way, the existence of this second tier title has at least paved the way for us to see. Like, I think a pretty good solid heavyweight fight between guys at the lower part of that top 10, top 12, top 15 in the weight class should be a fun fight. But in the end, TJ Daniel Daniel Dubois, he’s got the TNT in those fists, Trevor Bryant does not. And neither one of them are what you would call slickster. It’s is going to be who can impose himself. And I feel like Daniel Dubois is the man to impose himself on Trevor Bryan and we’ll get the knockout.
TJ Rives:
Certainly Dubois has a rocket right hand. Again, the nickname is dynamite. We’ll see if that’s on display. Again, Dan and I are now going to be on opposite sides of this because I like the under… Trevor Bryan has not been in serious trouble or knockdown, but again, I don’t think he’s been in with a puncher like this. I mean, the last fight was with a Louisiana fighter, late replacement. Both of these guys have what we call the dad bod, both Trevor Bryan, the big belly, the little bit. [inaudible 00:10:03] dad bod.
Dan Rafael:
Listen, I got one worry you say that.
TJ Rives:
And Guidry hung in there with Trevor Bryan. So that concerned me on that part. But go ahead way in on the dad bod.
Dan Rafael:
You were talk about the dad bod. Who’s the king of dad bods in heavyweight boxing history? It’s Larry Holmes, right?
TJ Rives:
Probably.
Dan Rafael:
Well, guess who spent time in the Trevor Bryan training camp working with him, helping him perfect his jab? It was Larry Holmes who spent time in the training camp with Trevor Bryan. So dad bod or not is ain’t a body building contest as a boxing match. And Trevor Bryan, I think has got at least enough boxing skills to hang in there for three or four rounds. I’m going to be make sure I text you about the fourth round of that fight.
TJ Rives:
Okay, please, please do. When the fourth round bell rings, you can text they told you on now. I did not get after you last week when I had Joe Cordina on the knockout of Ogawa.
Dan Rafael:
It’s great. I got to get [inaudible 00:10:45].
TJ Rives:
I got to laid off on that. So we disagree on the BetUS boxing show right now, live on this Friday. I believe this fight does not see the fourth round. I believe it’s over in the first three and a half rounds under. Dan likes the over still. We both agree Dubois by knockout. Dan just gives Bryan a little more of a chance to make this last longer and be a little more interesting. One more on this before we move on. Again, most of our fans, hardcore boxing fans know the name, but if you’re just checking the show out and you’re a boxing fan, but maybe more of a sports fan, you know the name Don King. A lot of people would not have known or realized Don King is still alive. Don King is 90 years old. The famous “Only in America!” promoter with the wild hairdo is still alive.
TJ Rives:
He’s 90 years old. He’s the promoter for Trevor Bryan. And you spoke with him earlier in the week. This is why we have Dan as our insider and our guy on this show. Tell me more about speaking to Don King and about him even in 2022. Well, beyond. 20 years beyond his heyday, 30 years beyond his heyday.
Dan Rafael:
I don’t know if I would go that far.
TJ Rives:
He’s still promoting a fight. What about it?
Dan Rafael:
That’s definitely not that far past his heyday. Look when I first started writing about boxing in 2000, 20 plus years ago, Don was still one of the most powerful promoters in the sport. He had a huge amount of top guys in his stable and Don stayed among the top guys and had a lot of quality fights and fighters deep into the 2000. It’s probably been about the last, I’d say about 10 years or so that he’s taken a step back. And hasn’t really been involved in that many fights, pick a fight here, pick a fight there where he is involved, but he is the promoter for Trevor Bryan. He did his title fight in January to that card. He’s obviously doing this card. And like you said, I did have a chance to talk to him.
Dan Rafael:
The digital streaming service fight is going to be the streaming service that’s carrying this fight on pay-per-view in the United States. You can buy it on regular pay-per-view, but they’re the streaming element of it. And so, I’ve done some work for them and we set up an interview with King to record for their FITE in Focus series. And so I spent about 30, 40 minutes with Don earlier this week to talk about this event, talking about the fight. And Don is maybe slowing down a little bit, but the mind is quick and the words come quicker. And he still has a lot to say. It’s like herding cats when you’re interviewing King. You try to keep him on the right path and keep him to the boxing subjects.
Dan Rafael:
It’s not the easiest thing. So if you go on and you watch that show, which I put on my social media, there’s references to Queen Elizabeth Jubilee and Donald Trump. And I think he mentioned Shimon Peres, the former leader of Israel, and he mentioned the Revolutionary War. And there was a lot of non sequitur historical references, but that’s the Don we know and love. But in between all that-
TJ Rives:
Yes, it’s the typical Don King interview. Exactly.
Dan Rafael:
But in between all that, there was plenty of his thoughts about fight about Trevor, about Dubois, about the fact that Dubois promoter is Frank Warren. One of the best known top promoters for a long, long time in the UK. And he and King have done many big fights together back in the day. And so we talked a little bit about their relationship. Listen, Don King, I’ve known him for a long time. Most of that period of time has been a good relationship. We’ve certainly had ours scrapes. You cannot cover the sport of professional boxing and not get into a sideways with the promoter now and again, but by and large, my time with Don has been perfectly fine and good. And I don’t talk to him all the time anymore because he’s not that busy, but when we get together to do these interviews, it’s fun.
Dan Rafael:
I mean, it conjures up some great memories of some of the big events of his that I have covered. And he’s still got that personality and he’s trying to hype up this fight. He knows that the one guy he’s got left and is stable, that could mean something is Trevor Bryan and undefeated American heavyweight with a piece of a belt. And he’s trying to make a go of it. And to his credit, I mean, he bid a lot of money at the first bid, won the promotion rights to this fight against Dubois. And I think they got a pretty good fight on Saturday and a weekend where as you mentioned, it’s not like there’s a ton of other big time fights that are going to take its place or bury it. So, it’s just as good as any of the other fights that are on this weekend, if not better.
TJ Rives:
Understood on that. I just kept thinking, when you were saying that all of his famous phrases, half words, Don King words, mass trick oration, when he didn’t like how an outcome of a fight went one time in the 80s, it was mass trick oration that was perpetrated on the Don King production. I don’t know if this is mass trick oration here with Trevor Bryan and Daniel Dubois, we will find out. So again, we’ll recap all of this in the best bets, but he and I, Dan and I are on opposite sides on how long it goes. We both believe Dubois gets the knockout of Don King’s fighter. We will find out… In fact, in the live chat here, again, if you’re live with us, you can participate. We’ve got a viewer that wanted to weigh in as well. If you guys wanted Alejandro and the BetUS folks put the live chat comment up where everybody can see it.
TJ Rives:
I was just seeing somebody in the live chat talking about Don King as well. He’s a character and he is 90 years of age. He’s tough to miss. Yeah. There’s Lpay that says to us, “Hey, love Don King, such a character.” There’s no doubt. He’s been around a while going all the way back to Muhammad Ali coming forward to Mike Tyson and a lot of the heavy weights in between, whether you’re talking about Larry Holmes in between them and after them all in and around Don King. All right, so there’s a lot on that heavyweight belt. Again, Oleksandr Usyk. I didn’t say this before, has the WBA world heavyweight title belt. The winner just real quick, Dan before we move on. The winner of this fight would theoretically line up to maybe fight Usyk in a WBA challenger role. That’s the real incentive for whoever wins, right?
Dan Rafael:
Okay. The WBA, the way they’ve done things, they’ve made a mess of it for a long time by having multiple titles in the same division. Thankfully in the last several months, going back to like the late part of last summer, they have begun the process of whittling it down to trying to get one title holder per division. They’re almost there. There’s still a few more divisions that they have to deal with heavyweight is one of them. So, the winner of this fight between Trevor Bryan and Daniel Dubois will have the WBA regular title, but they will be the official mandatory challenger for the other belt, which is the “Superbelt” that Usyk has. Now, before that fight can happen though, Usyk has much bigger business at hand.
TJ Rives:
Sure.
Dan Rafael:
His going to fight a rematch against Anthony Joshua in August is what they’re planning for. And then the winner of that fight, whoever it is, is going to have the WBA super title. I know all boxing fans hope that the winner of that fight will then meet up with Tyson Fury for the undisputed title. If that does not happen, the winner of this fight could be a possible opponent or it could be the winner if there is the undisputed fight or whatever. But the point is this winner on Saturday is going to position himself to fight for the big belt, let’s call it after Usyk and the Joshua rematch takes place later in the summer. It’s not going to be immediate. There’s still other things you’re going to have to overcome, because it’s not an easy fight to make because you have to… Why would Usyk do that if he can make a lot more money elsewhere?
TJ Rives:
Of course.
Dan Rafael:
Vice versa for Anthony Joshua. And certainly, I don’t think the WBA is going to stand in the way, if it’s possible to make the fight with Tyson Fury for the undisputed title. The main thing is this, the belt has a meaning to Dubois and to Bryan or he wouldn’t have come all the way over here, Dubois to do the fight. And for Bryan, he’s looking to defend it and create a better position for himself. And the winner is going to be in a great position, whether to be either the challenger for the big belt or if that big belt gets vacated, they’ll just be elevated and be the one and only heavyweight title holder of the WBA.
Dan Rafael:
So, there are stakes in this fight. And by the way, it wasn’t an inexpensive fight. I mean, you’d think about this. It’s not maybe the most well known fight Don King won the first bid. He won it for a bit of over $3 million. And Frank Lauren, who was the promoter for Dubois bid over $2 million for this fight. So, they must think there’s something to it also, or they wouldn’t put up that bread to put up to do the match
TJ Rives:
Absolutely, they would put a million or half a million, but they understand too that in Britain, Dubois a bigger deal and the British pay TV, pay-per-view, whatever market for Dubois and the British fighters is a bigger deal. That’s a-
Dan Rafael:
Right. It’s not a pay-per-view in Britain. It’s on BT Sport which is Frank Warren’s broadcast partner. So, King and Warren were able to make a deal for Frank to put that on his broadcaster. So there’ll be money coming in, obviously, but they bid a lot for this fight is the point. And hopefully make [inaudible 00:19:20].
TJ Rives:
And again, FITE TV, FITE TV which is Dan was referencing will stream the fight, donking.com Only In America, go there and find out more on the pay-per-view issue on how you can see it, how you can sign up. [inaudible 00:19:33].
Dan Rafael:
By the way, TJ also if you don’t do streaming or you don’t want to go on Don King’s site, it’s just a normal old, like regular in demand. If you have a regular old cable TV channel 501 where I live and you can just buy the pay-per-view, like you buy any old pay-per-view.
TJ Rives:
All right. Good to know on all of those. Okay. So that’s the biggest of the fights you see on our schedule there on the side of the screen. We’re coming to two more. We’re coming to some Q and A, there’s already some Q and A lining up. I see that in our YouTube chat live here. Next fight is the Saturday night bout in New York City at the Hulu Theater adjacent to Madison Square Garden. Edgar Berlanga will be involved here in a 10 round main event. Berlanga an unbeaten super middleweight fighting Roamer Alexis Angulo. He goes by Roamer or Alexis Angulo. Berlanga is favored. Although, it is a narrow, he’s not on the money line. He’s only like a minus 200 favorite by knockout. Berlanga is plus 200. The over under here, we did not have one at check here when we came aboard from BetUS.
TJ Rives:
So there’s not an over under. My speculation would be the over under might end up being like five and a half or six and a half rounds. We don’t have that officially. All right, Dan, what are your thoughts? Berlanga unbeaten, Berlanga began his career. This was noteworthy. This is a fighter again, born in Puerto Rico now fights out in New York with 16 consecutive first round knockouts. So, that’s eye catching.
Dan Rafael:
Oh, yeah.
TJ Rives:
Now, the next part is he stepped up in competition. The last three fights have gone the distance. Okay. Dan, your thoughts on Berlanga and this matchup with a veteran in Angulo, what do you think?
Dan Rafael:
All right. Well, as you mentioned, 16 first round knockouts not only is eye catching, but it created a huge amount of hype with boxing fans, with his broadcaster, ESPN, his promoter was excited. His whole team Berlanga, this is the second coming they were talking about like him fighting Canello Alvarez, and it’s going to be a huge fight. And everybody let’s slow down, take a deep breath.
TJ Rives:
Settle down, settle down. Yes.
Dan Rafael:
He’s a good prospect. 16 first round knockouts. He didn’t learn anything because he never had to even go back to the school to get an instruction or hear something from his trainer. So, that was not obviously going to last forever. He then went eight rounds, distance with a fighter named Demond Nicholson, who we totally dominated, dropped multiple times, beat up. But Demond Nicholson was a tough dude and went to distance. That was still a good performance, even though he didn’t get the K.O. And in many ways I felt like, and his team felt like the best thing that could ever happen to Berlanga was to go the distance and not get the first round knockout, because you’re able to learn your craft. Know you can go eight rounds and hang in there with a guy that’s throwing something back at you, then came the problems.
Dan Rafael:
He fought Coceres on an undercard in Las Vegas on the third Tyson Fury, Deontay Wilder undercard. He suffered an injury to his biceps. He got knocked down. He ended up winning a decision. And he had surgery on that biceps after that. So, that is a double edged sword. Didn’t look very good, but you got to give the man credit for, A going through the adversity of the injury, getting up off the deck and still having enough to actually win the fight without controversy. So, that was like good and bad in that fight. Now you go fast forward to his most recent fight where he was fighting at the Hulu Theater in Madison Square Garden in New York, big crowd there for him about, sold out 5,100, all there for Edgar Berlanga against Steve Rolls, a fighter that… If you know him, you probably know him because he gave a decent account of himself against Triple G Gennady Golovkin.
Dan Rafael:
Although it got stopped in that fight, and Berlanga not only did he go the 10 round distance in that main event, he won the fight but he just did not look at it all. It was a really… A very uneven, very disappointing performance. I think he was disappointed himself. I know that his people were disappointed. Top Rank was disappointed. Just didn’t look good. Now, he’s got the chance to come back. Is he going to go four in a row, go in the distance or is he going to be able to stop Angulo? And it’s again, a big deal because not only is it back in that same arena where his fans are in New York at the Hulu Theater at Madison Square Garden, ESPN main event, it is the eve of the annual Puerto Rican day parade weekend in New York, which top ranked many years ago when they were the promoter for Miguel Cotto, who will be inducted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame on Sunday, really created some of his biggest events.
Dan Rafael:
They made a decision similar to White Mexican fighters became a big deal to fight on the weekend of Cinco de Mayo or on the Mexican Independence Day weekend in September, Top Rank’s thought was, “Let’s have one of our big Puerto Rican stars fight on the Eve of the Puerto Rican Day Parade weekend in New York, where the parade takes place.”
TJ Rives:
Makes total sense makes, make sense.
Dan Rafael:
And Cotto had some of his biggest fights on that weekend, including against people like Zab Judah, which was a huge fight the anniversary of which is this week. And so, they are playing that same playbook with Edgar Berlanga not in the big room at Madison Square Garden, but in their smaller arenas. So it’s a lot of pressure on Berlanga. He’s so excited to fight on this weekend. He says, “He’s dreamed about it since he’s a kid, he idolized Miguel Cotto and Felix Tito Trinidad another all time great Puerto Rican fighter. So, it’s a lot of pressure on him. Not only does he want to get the knockout, not only is he fighting on Puerto Rican Parade Weekend Eve, not only is he fighting in front of his hometown and Miguel Cotto is supposed to be ringside before he goes back to Canastota for his induction on Sunday.
Dan Rafael:
So, there’s a lot of stuff going on for this young man. And he’s got a tough dude in front of him. Angulo is no joke, man. This is in my opinion, without question his best opponent of his career. I know Coceres had fought for a world title, but Angulo has fought for a world title twice and given solid accounts himself. He went 12 rounds fighting for Super Middleweight title against Gilberto Zero Ramirez. He lost a lopsided decision, but he hung in there for the whole 12 rounds. And the only other loss in his career was a stoppage, a late stoppage against David Benavidez. They were fighting for a vacant, super middleweight title where it was really unfair for Angulo because David Benavidez got stripped of that title because he had come in overweight. So he had not struggle to make the weight, which gave him most people think a little bit of an edge and he lost that fight.
Dan Rafael:
But if your only two losses are two of the best fighters in the division, Benavidez and now, and Zero Ramirez, who’s now not at the super middleweight division anymore, but one of the best light heavyweight contenders in the sport. Those are solid type of losses if there is such a thing. And Berlanga hasn’t faced anybody like that. And he’s stepping up and I think this is a tough fight for the kid.
TJ Rives:
All right. So we’re going to lock in a prediction. I could sense this when you were already saying this, you think this is going a while. We don’t have it over under. In fact you think this is going the route. It will be a Berlanga win says Dan Rafael and he is going to cash. He believes on the decision plus 125. Good value on that. I disagree with you. Here we go again with a little bit of difference. I think Berlanga gets back on track. I saw that Benavidez Angulo fight previously, and you make a good point that Benavidez came in maybe a little heavier than what he should have been because he was allowed to be overweight. They stripped him of his title and still have the fight. I just think with something to proved, with all the buildup that you laid out, Berlanga’s going to deliver late night, Saturday night, Hulu Theater, right next to Madison Square Garden, New York City. I think this is an Edgar Berlanga knockout. And again, we make this distinction on the BetUS boxing show.
TJ Rives:
We’re not looking at a specific round. I just think at some point in the 10 round main event, Berlanga gets to him by stoppage or by K.O. And I’m getting a little more value than just taking Berlanga on the money line. I’m going knockout plus 210 here for BetUS purposes. Just one more time here for Berlanga. Yeah. All right.
Dan Rafael:
Not unreasonable [inaudible 00:27:16]. And not unreasonable to do that. I just feel like Angulo’s tough enough to hang for 10 rounds.
TJ Rives:
And maybe he is. So if Berlanga is victorious, which we both believe that he is, how realistic is it that he could get a title shot at some point. We know that Canello Alvarez has all the belts at 168 right now. He’s fighting Golovkin in September. He’s more than likely fighting Dmitry Bivol the Russian in a rematch next year, but can Berlanga get in the championship conversation in the next fight or two for him? Is it soon?
Dan Rafael:
It’s a little bit too soon. I think partly because the titles are spoken for. Canelo Álvarez is not, not giving those belts up anytime soon. The organizations are not about to strip the money, man. There’s no reason for them to do so anyway. So, if you want to be a super middleweight champion, you got to go through Canelo Álvarez at this point until further notice. So, that fight between Canelo and Berlanga, that’s a long way away. I don’t know if… Maybe it can happen down the road if he continues to develop and win. If it ever did come to pass and he had earned that shot and made it a big enough deal. You’re looking at a super fight because of the fact that he would’ve earned that position. Canelo is who he is. It’s Mexico against Puerto Rico, which is the classic one of the classic boxing rivalries that we’ve seen so many phenomenal matchups between fighters from those two places.
Dan Rafael:
And there’s been a real history there now after the last 40 years or whatever it’s been since they’ve been having regular battles between their best fighters. But I think it’s a lot premature to be talking about Edgar Berlanga fighting for a super middleweight title be it against Canelo Alvarez or anybody else. He is in that gray area right now. He’s had a lot of people very excited for good reason. And he’s got a great personality. He’s a nice kid. I mean, I’ve met him, interviewed him several times. I know his team, I know his management, they’re working hard but it’s can he continue to develop? If he can, it’s going to be a great thing for boxing because you have another guy that it would be a quality fighter, but also a bankable guy at the box office and on television.
Dan Rafael:
He’s got star potentially, he’s got that charisma. You just got to be able to put the ability with that ability to sell tickets and to create excitement and all that. So, this is a very pivotal fight for him. Now, I don’t think that there’s any problem going the distance in this fight. I’m not one of those guys that’s, “Oh he’s got three knockout or three distance fights in a row, and now maybe it’s going to be four distance fights in a row.” I don’t really care so much about that. To me, it’s about what’s the performance like? Are you doing what you’re supposed to do? Now, you can’t account for, if the guy you’re fighting just has a great chin or sometimes just the guy’s just not going anywhere that night. You’re going to have to figure out a way to get through those 10 rounds.
Dan Rafael:
But if he goes to 10 rounds and he looks sharper and more device his attack and defensively, he’s more responsible. And he listens to what his corner says. You can make an assessment after that fight, did he look better than he did against Steve Rolls? Because again, the ultimate is to win the fight. He did that against Steve Rolls. No one’s questioning that, but it was really a lack lesser performance. And he knows that, he’ll be the first to admit it, talk to his team privately.
Dan Rafael:
They’ll tell you that as trainers, as management, they know it was not a great showing, but they know they got a kid with a potential to be a star. He sold that building out and the fight on this weekend, there’s going to be another big crowd there. The question is, what’s the state of mind of Roamer Alexis Angulo. Was he coming to lay down? Was he going to come to give a big time fight and hang in there against a tough opponent? Like I said, not like Angulo and I are buddies and we haven’t had an interview or talk, but I think he’s coming to hang in there for a while, all 12 rounds.
TJ Rives:
All right, you and I slightly disagree. This will be late night, Saturday night, ESPN will televise Edgar Berlanga, Roamer Alexis Angulo. There’s fight number two on our list. We’re coming to your questions and answers. I promise there’s some of you in the live chat asking some questions about some other fights as well. One more here and I wish as we take a look at Jaime Munguia and Jimmy Kelly here in a matchup in Anaheim, California. I wish this was an even fight. I’d be lying on the BetUS boxing show. This is not an even fight. This is unbeaten Munguia, the former WBO world champion at junior middleweight, former world champion contender at middleweight.
TJ Rives:
He’s now fighting just above that middle weight limit in a non-Title fight here against a guy from the UK that we know very little about and look at the odds. Munguia, there’s not even a BetUS line on him to win right now. Dan, that tells you how ridiculous the matchup is.
Dan Rafael:
Yeah.
TJ Rives:
And even on the knockout prop it’s minus 900 and without an over under Munguía, again is a big knockout fighter. Okay. Dan, what are your thoughts here? Main event in Anaheim, Golden Boy Promotions all the way out West Coast, Southern California. Is this going a few rounds, a couple of rounds? Is it a Munguía big knockout win for the unbeaten Mexican fighter?
Dan Rafael:
When they first made the fight? The joke was, is he fighting Jim Kelly, the former quarterback for the Buffalo Bulls?
TJ Rives:
Cool. I hope not.
Dan Rafael:
The answer is no, and somebody suggested that might be a better, more interesting fight. Look, Jimmy Kelly is an unknown guy. He has a modest upset in his recent fight against Kanat Islam. I’m not sure that’s enough to put him in the position to be the main event on the zone against quality fighter like Jaime Munguia. That’s what they made. They tried to make other fights. I don’t want to kill golden boy too much. They tried to make Munguia against Daniel Jacobs. There was an overture to try to make a fight with Charlos, which I didn’t really think was ever realistic, but the Jacobs one was realistic.
Dan Rafael:
They just not come to an agreement on the financial package. But because that dragged out a little bit longer than they hoped for, the Pickens were slim. When it came time to actually find an opponent and Jimmy Kelly raised his hand and took the fight. Look, the odds are wide. As we’ve talked about, man, anything could happen. You got two grown men throwing punches at each other’s heads. You never know. But an educated opinion would be that Jimmy Kelly probably should go to Jim Kelly and borrow a helmet from him. It’s going to be a rough night for Jimmy Kelly. This is not…
TJ Rives:
The belief is, he’s there to get beaten up and maybe beaten up quickly. And we’ll see if that’s the case.
Dan Rafael:
Yeah. [inaudible 00:33:31].
TJ Rives:
I mean, that’s what? Minus 900 on the knockout line. That’s what the odds makers are telling you. You got to lay $9 to win one on Munguia by KO. They believe it’s going to be a knockout.
Dan Rafael:
Munguia has not been like this super fast starter that just blitz us through guys in one or two rounds. So there is the possibility that Kelly might go a few rounds, take a beating while it’s happening and gets stopped. But look, the chances are it’s a Munguia wipe out. I mean, I think every boxing fan who’s followed any part of Munguia’s recent career hopes and wishes that they see him in with a top opponent. He was a junior middleweight champion. As you mentioned, he’s undefeated. He’s still in his early twenties, but since he’s moved up to middleweight, it’s going to be his sixth, seventh fight in the weight class and he’s just fighting nobody’s and it’s unfortunate because he’s a popular fighter. He’ from Mexico. He’s proud of that heritage. He wants to be in that conversation with the top Mexican fighters. He’s got Eric Morales as his trainer who’s one of the all-time greatest Mexican fighters in the history of the sport.
Dan Rafael:
One world titles all the way from 122 pounds up to 140 pounds and has been in just tremendous battles over his career. Just a legendary hall of famer. And Munguia wants to be considered in that class someday, but it’s going to take more than beating the guys like Jimmy Kelly of the world to get that respect from the media, from the fans, from frankly other people in boxing. I’ve heard other boxers look at Munguia and laugh about his competition. And that’s not a good sign. You need to stop.
TJ Rives:
[inaudible 00:35:05]. Okay,
Dan Rafael:
And Jimmy Kelly is going to be a blowout fight, most likely.
TJ Rives:
Most likely it will be Munguia by the weight 39 and O, 31 KOs, five of his last six fights have ended in stop at your knockout. So this is more than likely a knockout. And again, this will be rare when we have a fight that we’re discussing like this, where Dan and I don’t have a play. There’s just not good enough value here, folks. I mean, again, BetUS does not have a line. I saw a couple of places where he is 1000 to one favored 1000 to one favored where you’re laying $1000 to win $1. That’s how one sided it is. And minus 900-
Dan Rafael:
Listen [inaudible 00:35:43]-
TJ Rives:
… Here on the knockout line, way too much. So it’s a no play from you and I.
Dan Rafael:
If you’re betting $1000 to win $1.
TJ Rives:
No.
Dan Rafael:
That should help.
TJ Rives:
Yes. Agreed. We are here for you on the BetUS boxing show for advice on just such occasion. So not an official play from either one of us. Munguia should get the knockout. gain-
Dan Rafael:
That’s the one… You know what CJ, that’s the fight where if you like boxing and you’ve made your bets for the weekend and you’ve watched the Berlanga and you’re checking out the Dubois fight, you know what, that’s the one where you just take a powder, sit back, enjoy the action. And don’t worry about your bank roll.
TJ Rives:
Yeah. And see if Munguia wipes him out in the first or the second round of this fight, which very well could happen. And it’ll be a rocking environment. I mean, there are a lot of obviously Mexican Americans in Southern California. It’s in Anaheim. He fought Rex recently in Mexico in a bull fighting ring. But he has fought in places like El Paso, Texas, he’s fought in Los Angeles. So Munguia has a following in the desert, Southwest in Mexico. And there will be several thousand making noise for this guy when they strike up the Mariachi band to come in and drop Jimmy Kelly. So let’s see if that will be the case in that matchup. All right. So that leads us in our final few moments to the question and answer period. Always fun-filled from the savages that I like to say, that are always watching us on the show.
TJ Rives:
Thank you for all of you in the live chat. We’ll get to some Q and A. Some of these in the BetUS guys will be feeding these on the bottom of the screen, I’m sure too. While we ask these, send them in if you’re watching us live. Again, if you’re seeing us later a reminder again, the show is live 1:00 Eastern time, Fridays. Fridays at 1:00 Eastern time previewing the bouts. Most of the boxing bouts are Saturday so we realize some of you may be seeing it later. But again, if you’re watching us hit the like button, hit the subscribe as you see right there on the screen. Share it out, promote it. We’re here live Friday at 1:00. Maybe you’re seeing us later on Friday. Maybe you’re seeing us on Saturday. That’s fine too.
TJ Rives:
All right. For the questions and answers. Let me see. A couple of you are asking about different fights. Irca, if I have the name right, says “Anything on Kyoguchi, if I have it right versus Bermudez tonight. The under is 10 and a half rounds.” Dan, you are the Savan on all of these fights. So this is Kyoguchi Bermudez. He’s asking the viewer, specifically about the under here and we see it there on the screen.
Dan Rafael:
Yes. I got you.So just a little background on it that a Hiroto Kyoguchi is the junior flyweight world champion. And he has the WBA title, but he’s considered the ring magazine champion, which mean he’s the legit champion of the 108 pound weight class. He’s an excellent fighter, been on a good run. And as we discussed in the situation with the Daniel Dubois and Trevor Bryan fight about the regular title and the super title, all that WBA nonsense. Bermudez is the regular champion. So this is a mandatory fight. It’s been put off for a long time. Both of them are coming back from lengthy layoffs. Kyoguchi has been out of the ring about 15 months. Bermudez about 13 months. Bermudez has had some losses. He got the second tier belt by upset. Kyoguchi is traveling. He’s fighting him in his home area.
Dan Rafael:
He’s fighting him in Mexico. We’ve seen some Asian fighters come to the North America and not do very well at all. This is a case where I think Kyoguchi wins this fight pretty handily, to be honest. And at that 10 and a half under, I like this on the under, I think that it’s… Kyoguchi is… He’s the class of that weight class right now, no pun intended. And he’s going to inflict some damage on Bermudez and they’ll be celebrating in Japan, not so much in Mexico.
Dan Rafael:
And one thing I found interesting in Kyoguchi’s pre-fight comments, not only he was already confident, but he was felt like he got a lift. He talked about in some of his translated remarks at the press conference. He’s from Japan. He watched earlier this week when his countryman Naoya Inoue knocked out Nonito Donaire in the second round. And it was a huge victory for Japanese boxing. He feels like he wants to keep that good streak, not streak, but that good feeling going by going on the road against Bermudez who’s not at the level of Donaire obviously. I think this is a clear, big time win for Kyoguchi who just keeps the chain moving and moves on to hopefully a bigger fight.
TJ Rives:
And again, that fight card in Mexico on Friday night, depending on when you’re seeing us on the BetUS Show, Kyoguchi is favorite. And what is junior flyweight is like what? 104 pounds. What is that?
Dan Rafael:
No, it’s a 108 pounds. It’s the… In order of the weight classes in men’s boxing, the smallest weight class is 105 pounds. Various organizations call it different things. Either mini flyweight, strawweight.
TJ Rives:
Wow. Those are two of the things that are called minimum weight, but the next division up is 108 pounds. That’s the junior flyweight division. And that’s where they’re fighting at.
TJ Rives:
Okay. I was just thinking of this when you were saying this. We began the show talking about Trevor Bryan and Dubois. Those guys at heavyweight are two of these guys, Kyoguchi and Bermudez.
Dan Rafael:
Literally literally.
TJ Rives:
At 230, 250. These guys are fighting at 108. 108 pounds.
Dan Rafael:
Listen-
TJ Rives:
It’s crazy.
Dan Rafael:
… I don’t care if they’re 108 pounds. If Kyoguchi came up to you and punched you in the face and knock you cold and me.
TJ Rives:
All right, I’ll take your word for it. I’m not asking for that. I’m just saying it 108 that’s, wow. Let’s see if these guys mix it up. If that is the case. All right. A couple of more moments for a couple of more questions here. Let’s say A Rod or Aaron Rod is watching us again. He’s been like a faithful viewer here. We got to send him a t-shirt or something. He’s interested-
Dan Rafael:
Whoa, whoa. Time out. Do we have t-shirts?
TJ Rives:
This is a good question. I think that we might need to be supporting if we are.
Dan Rafael:
I think we do. I don’t have one.
TJ Rives:
I don’t have one as of yet either, but we might need one for Aaron Rod is my point. He is asking about another fight. He is asking about Davies and Leach, I believe from Saturday. If you can help me with that when I’m looking, I’m double checking again. He is saying Aaron Rod on this, any bets or liens for leach versus Davies? Dan, I, again, defer to you on what he’s asking about on-
Dan Rafael:
He’s asking about one of the fights that’s taking place this weekend in the UK and being honest, I don’t have a strong feeling on that fight one way or the other. I guess Davies maybe, but I wouldn’t make a play on a fight where I didn’t have what I felt like was adequate information on.
TJ Rives:
All right. Again, I’m looking for that fight card. That one is coming in London.
Dan Rafael:
Yeah.
TJ Rives:
Correct?
Dan Rafael:
Yes. That’s in London.
TJ Rives:
Or actually in Telford, England. Marc Leach, Liam Davies, British junior featherweight bout. And again, this is good gambling advice here-
Dan Rafael:
Oh sure.
TJ Rives:
That are you… We say this all the time on BetUS. Are you just betting a fight to bet a fight?
Dan Rafael:
Right.
TJ Rives:
And are you maybe just throwing money away? Put more money on Daniel Dubois to knock out Trevor Bryan before the fourth round people than looking at Leach and Davies. Now that Dan says over, I have under on that fight or just philosophically, are you betting the fight to this viewer or anybody else just to bet a fight and we’re warning against that. Don’t bet them just to bet one. Here, save your bet.
Dan Rafael:
Yeah. I mean, if you really have that desire, that need and a fight like that, particularly, because you probably aren’t even going to be able to find it, it’s not available at least legally in the… I don’t know where the viewer is from-
TJ Rives:
To be able to see it. Right.
Dan Rafael:
He’s in the United States and wants to watch the fight, it’s going to be hard because you might be able to find a stream somewhere of the illegal variety, not my thing, but it’s not available on any top notch legal stream in the United States or broadcasters. So, look, I totally get that there’s some true diehards, whether it’s from a fan perspective or a betting perspective. I stick to fights that you can really know the track record, the background. If you’re going to be investing your money, would you buy a car that you hadn’t looked at or hadn’t seen or a house-
TJ Rives:
That hadn’t driven or hadn’t driven.
Dan Rafael:
Or make an investment in a company, a stock or something like that? No, you want to do your due diligence. You just want to do your homework. You want to know about these guys. And look. I mean, we do the show and we talk about these mostly the mainstream fights. And I know… I mean, we talked about that Kyoguchi fight that’s tonight. That’s not exactly the mainstream as fight of all time, but I know about those guys. I’d be less than honest if I said I ever knew everything about the Leach and Davies fight. So, I’m going to take a pass on that one.
TJ Rives:
Okay. So again, quickly on the odds Mark Leach is minus 325. These are, what? What did I say? Junior featherweights and Liam Davies might be the underdog play at plus 235 for whatever it’s worth. But you’re hearing from both of us. We don’t know enough about it, unless you’ve been betting some Mark Leach fights and having success. What are you looking at that one for? There’s plenty of other ones that you can look at for our audience. And we appreciate all of you with all the different questions. All right. So there’s one more Kevin the trucker. I guess he’s a trucker. He says, “Hey, Munguia against Edgar Berlanga.” Why not? Different promotions but if those two were to square off, that would be an interesting fantasy fight, a hypothetical fight on that one. Would it not?
Dan Rafael:
That’s a fun [inaudible 00:44:44].
TJ Rives:
[inaudible 00:44:46]
Dan Rafael:
That’s a very exciting fight because they both bring the heat. They both bring the hammer. They both are punchers. They’re both young. It’s Mexico versus Puerto Rico. That’d be the kind of fight where if they… And look, we’re talking fantasy fights, obviously. If they ever fought in say upcoming, let’s say that’d be the kind of fight where the winner would have a legitimate case to make that I should get some kind of title fight. But it’s not going to happen, but we can dream about it.
TJ Rives:
Okay. So one other name that comes up and I promise we’re getting to the best bets and we get out of here. We talked about Janovec. We keep saying the name Janovec because that’s the easiest one. He won the WBO’s secondary title at 168 pounds. A couple of weeks ago, he’s a top fighting fighter.
Dan Rafael:
Part of the 160.
TJ Rives:
160. So he’s in a different weight class. Would there be any thought of having Janovec then move up to maybe fight Berlanga if neither can get a title shot that they want, or you don’t think there’s any way that happens because both fighters are on separate tracks to get title shots on their own?
Dan Rafael:
Totally, totally. I mean the only common denominator there is they’re both with top rank and they don’t usually do just those types of matches just to do them. They have game plans for these guys. Edgar is at 168 pounds doing his thing, coming along, has a tough fight Saturday and is looking in a lot of other directions. Janovec is waiting to see what happens with Dimitrius, Andrade who’s the full champion of the WBO at 160, but is injured and was supposed to fight at 160. Most likely he’s not coming back to 160. That will be his… He won’t fight in that weight class again, he’ll vacate at 160 and that will mean that Janovec will be promoted to the full champion. He’ll go on and do his thing at 160. There’s absolutely zero reason for Janovec at this stage of his career to move up and wait. By all accounts he doesn’t have problems making 160 pounds.
Dan Rafael:
He’s a very dangerous fighter to anybody in that weight class. You name it. I don’t care who you’re talking about. Any middle weight, whether it’s Charlo or GGG, pick a guy he would at least compete or maybe win a very, very tough fight. So again, fantasy fights are great to talk about, but that one, a fantasy fight for now. Now two years from now, three years from now, when guys move up and if they’re still around and still doing their thing, I mean, and Top Rank is involved, certainly not out of the question, but for the near future, no chance that fight happens.
TJ Rives:
All right. Good enough.
Dan Rafael:
I like the questions.
TJ Rives:
I like those too. Again, we’re here live Fridays at 1:00 on the BetUS TV boxing show on our boxing channel. Spread the word. Even if you’re seeing us later on Friday or on Saturday, let us circle back to the best bets. We began first talking about the heavyweights. Dan, and I agree about a Daniel Dubois knockout Saturday afternoon, late Saturday afternoon, US time, Saturday night, London time. We agree that it will be a KO. Dan thinks this lasts beyond three and a half rounds though. He likes the over.
TJ Rives:
I’ll take the under. So we have disagreement on that. I think it’s a quicker knockout for Dubois. And then we disagree. We have the who that we agree on. Edgar Berlanga in the Top Rank ESPN main event, New York city, Saturday night. We agree on the who, we don’t agree on the how. Dan likes a decision. I go for a little more of the value play Berlanga by KO plus 210 in that one. Reminder again, that last week, Dan Rafael five in one on the boxing, gambling picks. I went three in one on the boxing gambling picks. The credibility builds. Let’s hope it builds for this weekend. Anything in closing my friend before we’re out of here and done here for a Friday before the Saturday fight cards from Miami to New York, to Anaheim, California, that we’re interested in?
Dan Rafael:
I’m just looking forward to watching the Kyoguchi fight that we brought up tonight. I look forward to watching the fights on Saturday, and then I wish all the folks, many of my friends and some great former fighters who have their Hall of Fame Induction weekend on Sunday, a big weekend for the fights, a big weekend for the sport.
TJ Rives:
You know, I was just thinking of this too, about Don King, about you getting to interview Don King, whenever Don didn’t like something and somebody began to spew facts and evidence, he would just say lies. All lies, all lies. Looking at the camera. No lies told here as the kids like to say, we try to bring the truth. We try to bring the gambling advice. We wish everybody luck with that. Dan have a fantastic weekend. I appreciate your time as always hanging with us on BetUS TV in the boxing show.
Dan Rafael:
Sounds great, TJ. I will be doing it again next week. I look forward to it. We got some good fights next week.
TJ Rives:
Love that. Love that. Get those questions ready. Be with us live on Fridays. Reminder, you can read more from Dan and me on bigfightweekend.com and the Big Fight Weekend audio podcast, series fighter interviews, and much more big fight weekend where you get podcasts and check us out on bigfightweekend.com. Remember to check out our sportsbook website. For right now we’re good. The BetUS TV boxing show is good for another week. Enjoy all of the action. Bye.
